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Subject: Lent Bible Study: To the Cross (March 10-16)

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ProudDog

Posts:509

03/10/2008 4:25 PM
Welcome to this week's Bible study. This week's long reading covers the events from the last supper all the way to Jesus crucifixion. Got any thoughts about any of that? As pump primers for our discussion, be sure to look at To the Cross and Planning. Here we go!

-Kirk Moore

subear

Posts:770

03/10/2008 4:50 PM
Hi Kirk: I read "Planning." I like your list, it reads like the list of characters in a play. Which led me to think: What if all of these characters are part of our "inner community;" what if, (like in Gestalt* psychology), they were our inner voices, parts of our psyche that we move through on our way to our own "death" (of the ego) and "resurrection" in the wholeness of the Light of Christ? I'm going to contemplate on that for a while. "Where am I like Judas? How am I like Mary? or Thomas? . . . " and so on. *Gestalt means "unified whole" In Peace, Love and Understanding, Susannah

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

ProudDog

Posts:509

03/10/2008 8:51 PM
I've been thinking along those lines, too, Susannah. I think we have moments of all the characters in our lives.

-Kirk Moore

katehuey

Posts:174

03/11/2008 11:26 AM
It puts a whole new light on things to see the link between Herod's killing of the innocents and the death of Jesus on the cross, doesn't it? Frederick Niedner talks about the rationalizations Herod used in ordering the massacre - as if he could "save Israel from vanishing under Rome's thumb"; after all, you don't want to displease the Empire! But here, near the end of the same Gospel story, the Empire steps in to help the religious establishment that thinks it, too, needs to protect something, even at the cost of everything. At least, that's the way I see it in this light...and I wonder about the blood being spilled today, and the many rationalizations we make in order to live with it: the people dying of HIV/AIDS, the refugees dying of hunger and thirst, the victims of terrorism and war... When Niedner writes of "just enough innocent blood to keep everyone afraid," it makes me uncomfortable to think about how easily, and how brutally, we humans can be kept in check from speaking out. I think about the way Jesus spoke out, and healed, and questioned the religious authorities, and what happened to him? They killed him. The path of following him, then, seems to lead to a cross. It's nice and comforting to think about the yoke of Jesus being light, but there's this cross to consider, too. What do you all think, on the eve of Holy Week, about our path toward Calvary?

Kate Huey

subear

Posts:770

03/11/2008 1:13 PM
Kate wrote: "They killed him. The path of following him, then, seems to lead to a cross. It's nice and comforting to think about the yoke of Jesus being light, but there's this cross to consider, too." There's always a paradox: It's the fear that keeps us from speaking Truth to power, but Jesus taught us that death is an illusion. He "conquered death". He showed us that Life is Eternal. But I'm still afraid of the "empire" especially when they can take people out of their homes and hold them prisoner on an island far from home without even notifying their family or lawyer. I'm afraid of the "empire" that can tap phone conversations and read e-mail (even this forum). I am not one to fight physically, I do not like violent confrontations, not even verbally. I am not a warrior. And I don't want to be crucified ! I can be silenced. (surprisingly!) Looking for Peace, Love and Understanding, Susannah

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

katehuey

Posts:174

03/13/2008 3:44 PM
I think a lot about Peter when I read this account, and I think there's a reason he's so important in the Gospels and in the early church. Doesn't Peter's passion, and weakness, and strength all remind us, at one time or another, of our own faith journey? Peter has been brash at times (remember how he recognized Jesus as the Messiah when others didn't, and wasn't afraid to say so? remember when he wanted to build three tents up on the mountaintop to remember the Transfiguration? remember when he tried to talk Jesus out of dying?), but his confidence is nowhere to be seen here. Peter is just one more follower who forgets his promises (never to leave Jesus, that is), and claims he doesn't know him. Where do you think Peter went after the cock crowed? Where do you think the disciples were, while the women stayed by Jesus? What do you think they felt, and what do you think they talked about?

Kate Huey

fulham

Posts:26

03/13/2008 4:04 PM
"......there's this cross to consider.....'. To the disciples, Jesu's mother etc the crucifxion, at the time , was very real. It was death and destruction in all it's forms. They were not to know what was to be revealed in three days time. But I don't think that the subsequent wonders of resurrection rendered death and suffering as 'illusory'. Rather it was placing the cross firmly in the realm of truth...proclaiming that we need to pass through the cross - experience in order to gain life and that is not the same as saying, a 'deathless life'.

john p campling

ProudDog

Posts:509

03/13/2008 5:13 PM
Posted By katehuey on 03/13/2008 3:44 PM Doesn't Peter's passion, and weakness, and strength all remind us, at one time or another, of our own faith journey? Peter's willingness to risk and his excellent record of failure are motivators for me -- anyone else?

-Kirk Moore

TFussRN

Posts:7

03/14/2008 11:58 PM
Posted By katehuey on 03/13/2008 3:44 PM Doesn't Peter's passion, and weakness, and strength all remind us, at one time or another, of our own faith journey? Peter has been brash at times (remember how he recognized Jesus as the Messiah when others didn't, and wasn't afraid to say so? ... but his confidence is nowhere to be seen here. Peter very much reminds me of myself, sometimes not being able to "put my money where my mouth is" either in my career by pointing out what others should do, but not doing it myself, or in working for justice where I may come on strong, but easily be scared away by an adversary.

TFussRN

Posts:7

03/15/2008 12:17 AM
My comments on "Planning" Judas- I don't feel he was just greedy. It is, of course, impossible to know his motives but I think urging Jesus to "come out fighting" and take power in a dramatic fashion sounds very plausible. I can't watch Carl Anderson's portrayal of Judas in "Jesus Christ Superstar" and not empathize with him. Peter- I think he had the best of intentions but his human fears and failings just got the best of him. Pilate- It's very hard to determine the true intentions of Pilate because of Matthew's overt implication of "the Jews" in Jesus' crucifixtion. The gospel reads as if he had no choice and was just doing the will of the angry mob, but I have a suspicion they didn't push him to do anything he didn't already want to. Soldiers- I think, just as today, a soldier cannot be assumed to have any one view or belief simply because they are a soldier by profession. Joseph of Arimethea- Joseph wanted to protect Jesus' dignity for sure and provide a sense of comfort and closure for Jesus' followers. While questioning the actual existence of the character, in "Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography" John Crossan describes the gruesome disposal (or lack thereof) of the body of someone who was crucified, and how Joseph of Arimethea saved early followers of Jesus from this image.

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