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iucc
Posts:265
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| 02/05/2008 4:42 PM |
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| "Wilderness Encounters" is the theme for this week's study of Matthew 4:1-11. As pump primers for our conversation, you're welcome to read Weekly Seeds and our Bible Blog. |
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Andy Lang
Minister for Web Community and Communication
Local Church Ministries
United Church of Christ |
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katehuey
Posts:174
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| 02/06/2008 1:00 PM |
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Jesus' hunger, out there in the desert wilderness, initiated him into ministry. Richard Swanson says hunger makes us human, since God breathed into Adam and made him "a desiring being." Hunger makes us do both great and terrible things. So when Jesus was alone, hungry, and maybe afraid, discouraged, lonely...he was fully human and fully alive in a way that we can't be when we're too comfortable. In this wilderness time, Jesus entered fully into the human experience rather than just observing it and commenting on it from a safe distance.
We're now beginning Lent, a time to examine the empty, hungry places within us, to spend time in the wilderness. In an age of hunger (every age, alas, is an age of hunger, but we at last could end it if we had the will), we're not saying physical hunger is a good thing for others, but spiritual hunger is a very necessary part of our lives. Lent, Barbara Brown Taylor says, is an "invitation to a springtime of the soul...Forty days to cleanse the system and open the eyes to what remains when all comfort is gone...to remember what it is like to live by the grace of God alone and not by what we can supply ourselves." I took that to mean that Lent is a kind of spring housecleaning, and spiritual practices like fasting are our tools.
One early church leader said that the glory of God is the human person, fully human, fully alive. Does it strike you as odd that we might think of Jesus as fully human, fully alive when he was hungry, alone and tempted? Doesn't it seem that all religions struggle with this question of human need and desire? But isn't there a difference between what we need, and what we want? What do you think? |
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Kate Huey |
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ProudDog
Posts:511
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| 02/06/2008 3:58 PM |
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| Kate's talking about cleansing, hunger, lonliness and doubt this week. I've got losing weight on my mind. And. . . it's all related to this week's Bible reading from Matthew 4:1-11 - Jesus' fasting and being tempted in the wilderness. What are your thoughts? |
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-Kirk Moore |
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BikerForChrist
Posts:1
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| 02/06/2008 8:48 PM |
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| How great it is to know that Jesus really knew what it was like to be fully human, to be hungry, to be tempted by the material trapping of the world. He can understand me, and knows how I struggle. It points out to me that the things that are really important for me to have are not materials things, but spiritual things. I can find true joy and satisfaction in my relationship with God. The materials things of the world can not satisfy the innermost longings of my soul. For me to be truly happy, God needs to be at the center of my life, and I need to remember that I must serve him. How did Jesus serve God? He fed the hungry. He gave love and forgiveness to those who were societal outcasts. His whole mission on this earth was about love. So I guess I need to ask God to help me to love people the way that Jesus loved them. Perhaps the focus of Lent this year for me should be on turning my eyes away from myself and my selfish desires, and doing as Jesus told us to do: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself." (Luke 27). |
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Rebecca Stanton |
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fulham
Posts:27
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| 02/07/2008 10:35 AM |
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Oh yes, Kate, I'm sure you're right about a distinction between ' wanting' and 'needing'.
Maybe a 'want' is something we lack, which in itself is not a 'need'. It becomes a 'need' when an element of imperativeness creeps into the equation and before we know where we are.................it's a necessity.
If we list the things we lack..........I'm sure they'll be pages and pages. Highlight what we think we' need ', keeping in the forefront of our mind, whether it qualifies for graduation to ' necessity' level. Examine carefully and do a redraft. I am certain that a surprisingly few items will appear in the 'necessity' category.
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john p campling |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 02/07/2008 2:50 PM |
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I like what everyone has written here.
And here's a slightly different take.
From the "mountain top" [exaltation; high plane of consciousness, a state of spiritual realization] to the "desert places" which from a human point of view, is "no-thing-ness." Thereby, "satan" represented that human point of view by assuming Jesus was seeing the world from only the human point of view. The truth is, wherever God is there is inexhaustible resource; And, there is no place where God is not. From the viewpoint of Spirit, from the Christ-Consciousness of Jesus, there is no such thing as lack. The "tempter" took Jesus to the top of the mountain, offering him "the world" in exchange of his identity as the Christ, but in that high level of Consciousness, there is no contest.
"When man learns the quickening power of Life, Love and substance he makes the seeming 'desert places' in his mind bloom like the rose and bring forth abundantly." (Fillmoore, Charles. The Metaphysical Bible Dictionary. 171).
Do we, the readers (and the authors?), of this story assume that Jesus suffered and then was tempted? Or do we believe that that story was told in order to illustrate that our experience of life depends on our perception? From the perception of human, materialist-consciousness (only believing what can be seen in the material world; "show me"), forty days of fasting in the desert would look like lack, hunger, thirst and desire. From the expanded, exalted, Consciousness of Spirit/God, there is no lack, because the truth is, God/Spirit is the (unlimited) source of all substance and sustenance.
I like this metaphor at the beginning of Jesus' ministry because he became the "food" and "drink" to satisfy the spiritual hunger and thirst of the people (then and now).
Does this story show the transition of Jesus' consciousness into the Christ? or was he already there (from the baptism experience)?
I think it gives us a window into the "field of all possibilities" for our own lives.
In Peace, Love and Understanding,
Susannah
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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fulham
Posts:27
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| 02/07/2008 4:46 PM |
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Susannah, you pose the problem of the transition of Christ-consciousness in Jesus. If we read correctly, the Baptism of Jesus was a remarkable event but, surely, it was the initiation of Him into the ministry God had laid out. The ' transition' was an evolving of His Christ-consciousness throughout His life and ministry and only reached fruition on the Cross.
If we think of Jesus, the man ,suddenly discovering in some metaphysical way ,either at His baptism, the Temptation or at any other point in His life, that he was the Messiah, are we not drifting towards the idea of God dressed up as a man?
The joy and uniqueness of the Incarnation is that God became Man........fully human and walked the tempestuous walk through this life. His spiritual insights are mind-blowing and revolutionary; He turned the world upside down with His extraordinary revelations of the Father's nature. But the question remains, was He fully conscious during his life, of His Messiahship? It can only really be a speculative answer. |
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john p campling |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 02/08/2008 10:46 AM |
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fulham wrote: "If we think of Jesus, the man ,suddenly discovering in some metaphysical way, either at His baptism, the Temptation or at any other point in His life, that he was the Messiah, are we not drifting towards the idea of God dressed up as a man?"
The Christ Consciousness in Jesus, was/is the Consciousness of "I AM" . . . "I AM, THAT, I AM" (like Moses).
I do not suggest that God was putting on any kind of "human costume," or that Jesus was putting on any kind of "God costume," but it was/is, just as you said, "God being fully human." God showing (It/Him/Her) Self in human form.
But, Jesus, at some point, came into that awareness. Was it gradual? or was there a moment of enLightenment? Was it during "the Transfiguration"? when his body was filled with Light on top of the mountain with his three disciples as witness.
Are we afraid to look at that Light? (I present these questions in the atmosphere of contemplation. . . not looking for a doctrinal answer). Are we afraid to see that Light in ourselves? Are we willing to see that Light in others?
I believe (and I am not asking you to join me in this belief. . . but just to consider) that Jesus came to show us that we, too, are incarnations of God/Spirit, as is this whole creation. The difference between (most of) us and Jesus, is in the realization. How much of this God/Spirit can we hold in our consciousness, how large can we expand our limited consciousness to include God/Spirit, the Universe, and are we willing to grow into our God-Selves? (Body, Mind, and Soul).
[Now, don't get all scared here, I'm not talking about "controlling the world, " (that's "satan" thinking) remember God is Love, and what the world needs now is more Love.
-In Peace, Love and Understanding,
Susannah |
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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katehuey
Posts:174
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| 02/08/2008 1:44 PM |
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You're reminding me of something Barbara Brown Taylor said in her sermon on the temptations of Jesus: the same Spirit that descended on Jesus at his baptism immediately led him into the wilderness. So he went from an incredible experience of confirmation and glory to a place of doubt (temptation) and hardship. Barbara says Jesus "may have wondered if he imagined the whole thing."
Also, my best friend once again puts it so well: he said that Jesus, in overcoming the temptations in the desert, reversed what the Israelites did when they were hungry, thirsty, and wandering toward false gods. An interesting way to read this text!
I have to admit that when I read this text as a child, I pictured Jesus impervious to the temptations and just calmly telling off the devil. There was no wondering or struggle in my childhood Jesus: he knew he was God, and just walked through everything. |
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Kate Huey |
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kwalker
Posts:11
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| 02/09/2008 10:01 AM |
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Wilderness encounters - Lent - A time for remembering that we are sinners living in a confessing world - A time for us to reflect on the experiences of Jesus walking through the wilderness - a time to reflect on our sinfulness as we attempt to "give up" something for Lent. We attempt to "stop doing" or "stop eating" something that, in some way, we know is bad for us. All in an attempt to deny the self, the "sinful self". To remind ourselves that we must repent. That this is what God is asking us to do. What about this word repent?
As I understand sinfulness in my life I see it as any action or word that either consciously or unconsciously moves us further away from our relationships with God, other creatures including humans and nature. I believe that when Jesus began his ministry and said "repent, for the kingdom of God is near" he really meant prepare yourselves, I bring not a message of doom but a message of hope. Prepare yourselves by repairing your selves. Image if we removed the word "repent" and offered in its place "repair yourselves and your relationships, for the kingdom of God is near". Repair yourself by quitting smoking or losing weight or drinking less, repair your relationship with your neighbor, repair your relationship with nature by starting an ecological initiative in your family such as recycling. repair yourself in your relationship to God by starting to attend church more regularly or praying more or reading the Bible more.
In the traditional language of "repenting" and "fasting" and "temptation" during Lent, let us move to "repairing" ourselves to our bodies and our relationships with others, nature and God. Let us "feed" on the radical love of Jesus Christ in how he handled relationships with nature, God and others and let us "tempt" others to do the same through our daily acts and words as active and loving Christians.
It is surely in our loving, being kind to, forgiving and just plain meeting others in a new and radical way that we are repenting by changing our inward attitude and behavior. A devout Irish Catholic parishioner asked me yesterday, ‘So, Kurt, what are you giving up for the Lent?’. I said, “it’s not so much the giving up as the deciding to do Fergus. I’ve decided to make a conscious effort at been nicer to people. I guess this means I’m attempting to give up those things in my life that are mean such as sarcasm, prejudicial remarks, snap judgments and a quick tongue.” Fergus turned to me and said, ‘well then, you must not be a good Catholic if you’re not giving up the drink but I do believe you’ve given me something to add to my list.’ “Fergus”, I said, “I’m sure that God wants you to repair your body by not taking the drink as I’m sure God doesn’t like the way we sometimes treat the gifts we’ve been given such as good health. But, I think God cares just as much for the health of his community as a whole, his children, and how those relationships are being repaired in God’s name”.
Additional thoughts welcomed as I’d like to expound on this.
May we all be about the business of repairing, this Lenten season, and beyond,
Kurt |
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"What is at stake in imagining ourselves Godbearers with youth is redefining ministry--youth ministry in particular--as a holy pursuit." - K C Dean |
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ProudDog
Posts:511
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| 02/09/2008 12:51 PM |
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Posted By katehuey on 02/08/2008 1:44 PM
I have to admit that when I read this text as a child, I pictured Jesus impervious to the temptations and just calmly telling off the devil. There was no wondering or struggle in my childhood Jesus: he knew he was God, and just walked through everything.
That's the way I understood it when I was younger too. I like the "Jesus was really hungry and lonely and maybe even doubting" way of looking at things. It really gives a powerful presentation of Jesus' humanity.
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-Kirk Moore |
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fulham
Posts:27
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| 02/09/2008 12:52 PM |
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Not scary at all, Susannah.
Outrageous though the notion of ' us ' as incarnations of God/Spirit may seem on first reading, after careful reflection they become very meaningful.
I clearly remember the huge rumpus that blew up in the early 60's when ' Honest to God' was published in which, the then Bishop of Woolwich referred to God as the 'Ground of our Being'. A concept I found very useful along with many of my fellow students.
It suggests that the Spirit is already there within us awaiting our ' realization' of It's presence. I think that's what you're saying qlso.
On a second point, on reading Mark's brief and concise account of the Temptation, I noticed.........and to be honest I had never noticed it before.........that it was the Spirit that drove Jesus out into the wilderness to grapple with the forces within Him. All part of the Grand Plan of training.............for Jesus and for us. Could it not be, that the 'realization' of which Susannah speaks , comes precisely through a wilderness experience or an awareness of our own hidden wilderness. |
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john p campling |
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greenrebel55
Posts:70
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| 02/09/2008 2:25 PM |
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| I notice we've talked about Jesus' experience. I wonder what some of our experiences are. Speaking for myself, I often see temptation from it's backside as the adversary (ha satan) goes snickering off having tricked me, again. It's those almost good things that trip me up. My car has 12 ways to electronically adjust the seats. My computer has NVIDIA on it. I wear shoes that cost $100+. Why? |
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fulham
Posts:27
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| 02/10/2008 5:35 AM |
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I dare not hasten a guess , Greenrebel, why you want to wear 100 dollar shoes.............you have the answer within you.
Similarly, I have 60 years worth of temptations, ( many of which I can't remember), but certainly worse than wearing expensive shoes !!! which if I recited, would be of no use to me , you or anyone else.
What is important is to find answers to the 'Why' questions which you and I have.
The wilderness experience of Jesus gives us an opportunity to identify, acknowledge and work through our own desert places.......the ' Why' questions that lurk inside us all.
In that way, we can receive inspiration and empowerment to grapple with the forces that constantly tempt us away from the path of holiness.
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john p campling |
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ericinseattle
Posts:0
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| 02/14/2008 4:20 PM |
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| I hadn't really thought about the 40 days of jesus in the desert - other than it was inconvenient. When younger I just thought - well - he's God - he just has to wait it out. What Kate pointed out and ProudDog echoed has certainly had me thinking this week. This last year I've become aware that my wastefullness. It is a type of gluttony I think. Anyway - this Lent I'm looking at that. Not to give up stuff for just Lent - but to re-assess my values and what is important and what isn't. I think what kwalker wrote really hits the nail on the head for me: "As I understand sinfulness in my life I see it as any action or word that either consciously or unconsciously moves us further away from our relationships with God, other creatures including humans and nature." |
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