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Jack

Posts:95

07/24/2007 12:14 PM
I agree that appearance has an influence on peoples’ reactions to the pastor. One question the pastor needs to ask him/herself what is the atmosphere I am trying to create in this service? Is the “glory and majesty” more important that being an “accessible” human being who is just another worshipper? This is also tied into what is the God we are trying to worship is like. A warm and loving Father? The creator of the universe and all that is in it? The worshipper needs to be reminded of the great difference between man and God the creator. God whom is able to step in and perform miracles that seem to defy logic and science? Ideally, in my view, each needs to be emphasized to maintain an accurate view of God. Alas, knowing who are your audience, and what they expect is important to the worship service. Your appearance tends to set the tone.

Jack

Pastorbogy
101-200 posts

Posts:121

07/24/2007 10:50 PM
During most of the year I look much like the picture to the left while leading worship. However, during the summer months, like right now, I dress in a shirt and tie, and sometimes just a golf shirt. Even with air conditioning I soak through a shirt otherwise. I'm working up there folks. Plus, the congregation as a whole is more relaxed in the summer, and encourage me to do the same.

cathy hinman
New User

Posts:1

07/27/2007 2:55 AM
While in seminary, I discovered this wonderful artisan who made hand woven robes. I contracted with her to create one that would reflect the amazingness of God in my life and what I hoped for the ministry I was journeying toward. My hand woven robe is black with tiny threads of the liturgical colors and some gold and silver mylar mixed in. On Christmas Eve, it twinkles! It is also my blankie - perfect for those winter services when the heat failed to fill the sanctuary. I usually wear this one Advent through Lent. I also have two other robes. One also hand created by a friend, per my specs. It is white with the liturgical colors (and yellow!) 'quilted' down the left side of the front of the robe, and around the cuffs of the sleeves. I wear this one in the summer when a robe is 'needed.' My robe I usually wear for weddings, funerals, Easter through Pentecost is ivory. I purchased it from Cokesbury when they were having an amazing sale!! The stoles I wear reflect my relationship and understanding of God, the liturgical color, summer/winter.... I've made many of them - quilted, sewn, crocheted..... Those I've bought are Guatamalen, the synod stole from 2005, one from Africa that has black hands holding the bread and pouring the cup, they all mean something to me. At the last church I served, members would say they looked forward to my choice of stole that day - and how the worship, setting at the worship table, etc - all worked together. Even in the heat and humidity of summer, if I am preaching, I wear a stole, so my summer dresses are intentionally purchased for the complimenting of my summer stoles, which are not all green, by the way. For me, it is all a reflection of the love and wonder I share with the God I am worshiping. Cathy

God is good - all the time!

richrthr

Posts:102

07/27/2007 5:34 AM
Thank you for sharing that Cathy. It is nice to have a thoughtful perspective on the choices pastors make in their appearance. Rev. Susan Mitchell, of Sankofa UCC spoke at a Conference meeting once in which she wore traditional African robes and stole that reflected the rich (and beautiful) african tradition of color and creativity - used to enhance or remember a culture - it was very effective, attractive, and vibrant!

Richard Kiraly Garden of Grace UCC http://www.gogucc.com

subear

Posts:732

07/27/2007 10:19 AM
Wow! Cathy, a woman who approaches apparel the way I do; it's an art. And it's not about "fashion" it's about expressing a message. I love what you wrote! Blessings, Susannah

"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

Jack

Posts:95

07/30/2007 8:44 PM
John M. Buchanan has a short commentary about his dress for worship. I found this paragraph amusing and thought provoking. After all, it is always interesting to jolt people with their presumptions. And so when I became a student pastor I put a collar on, and I have been doing so every Sunday since. I know all the reasons why I shouldn't: that my Reformed tradition celebrates the vocation of all Christians, that the minister is simply the one the congregation calls to be its pastor, preacher and prophet. But I have discovered over the years that wearing a collar brings unintended benefits and surprises. In the hospital I don't have to explain who I am. And it is fun to walk home from church in this heavily Catholic city in my collar, holding hands with my wife. http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=3543

Jack

Pastorbogy
101-200 posts

Posts:121

07/31/2007 1:22 AM
I have never worn a collar. I know many other pastors who do for the reason Buchanan gave, at least the first one. Even when I was in seminary, doing CPE as a chaplain, I never had any trouble convincing anyone I was a pastor. Except for the time in a hospital elevator after a baby was kidnapped from the nursery, some nurses thought I was either a pastor or a detective.

richrthr

Posts:102

07/31/2007 6:27 AM
I have a lot of trouble convincing people I am a pastor. Shorts and sandals don't seem to convince anyone. Of course, I am not a pastor.

Richard Kiraly Garden of Grace UCC http://www.gogucc.com

Johnny

Posts:4

09/15/2007 12:46 PM
Vogue, [vogue] Beauty's where you find it [move to the music] Vogue, [vogue] Beauty's where you find it [go with the flow] Greta garbo, and monroe Deitrich and dimaggio Marlon brando, jimmy dean On the cover of a magazine Grace kelly; harlow, jean Picture of a beauty queen Gene kelly, fred astaire Ginger rogers, dance on air They had style, they had grace Rita hayworth gave good face Lauren, katherine, lana too Bette davis, we love you Ladies with an attitude Fellows that were in the mood Don't just stand there, let's get to it Strike a pose, there's nothing to it I agree fix yourself up as best as you can. Your body is a temple decorate it as one. Joel Osteen has it right, whiten your teeth and have some great armani suits! ;)

emerymat

Posts:3

02/18/2008 11:25 PM
Do I think that appearance is more important than substance? No. However, I have found that often how pastors (and people in general) choose to appear often reflects substance in some way. I myself am turned off by ministers who just wear a 'business' suit, and I hate it on the couple occasions I have had to do so myself to lead worship. It feels too much like I'm a Baptist preacher man or something. I much prefer a pastor to wear an alb and liturgical-color stole. An alb is the most ecumenically-agreed upon basic robe/vestment. It's generally white or off-white and often worn with a 'cincture', which is a robe or band of cloth that gathers it at the waist. With reference to 'beige' cassocks on this thread, I suspect some people have been referring to albs all along and incorrectly calling them cassocks (since cassocks are almost always black). For a picture just to verify what I'm talking about, see http://www.almy.com/albsforwomen.html or http://www.almy.com/albsformen.html (Oh, and you can see what an actual cassock looks like at http://www.almy.com/cassocksformen.html or http://www.almy.com/cassocksforwomen.html ) Why do I prefer the alb? First, I agree with what others have said about the function of a robe to take the focus off what an individual might be wearing that day. Second, the alb is the most ecumenically agreed upon robe/vestment: Lutherans almost always wear them, Episcopalians and Catholics always wear them for Eucharistic services (perhaps with other 'fancier' vestments on top, but under it all is an alb), Methodists often wear them. The black 'Geneva gown' type robe (the academic robe looking one) has been a Presbyterian/Reformed/UCC anomaly in the wider church. Third, the alb is symbolic of our baptismal garments: in the traditions of the church, people were often robed in white following their baptisms, and the alb is reflective of that. It is a robe that can be worn by any person in any role in worship, with the stole indicating ordained status--you see this in many Lutheran churches where the assisting minister (a lay person) is also wearing an alb, but with no stole. Fourthly, the alb speaks to the more pastoral and sacramental roles of the pastoral office, rather than to academic training and status as solely the interpreter of the Word. And fifthly, I must confess that my pastors growing up (in the Presbyterian church, no less) all wore albs, and many of the pastors at my college church wore albs, and the pastors wore albs at the church I attended while I was in seminary--so for me it has been the norm. All of that said, I also must confess that in my current church I usually wear a black Geneva gown style robe. This is for two reasons, really: most importantly, I am the associate pastor at my church, and my senior pastor's choice is the black robe. It would be odd for us to be dressed in two rather different styles of vesture. Secondly, the tradition in this congregation has been for the black robe and my senior pastor and I get in enough 'trouble' with the 'older-and-long-time-member' segment of the congregation for other "changes" we have made in worship (like distribution method for communion, more prominent observance of the liturgical year cyle, etc.), and so if robe style is at least one thing they can feel is familiar, that is fine with me. That said, when I am doing weddings and other services that are more independent of the main congregation, I do use my more-preferred alb-style robe. One issue that wasn't raised in this thread is about clerical collars. I myself actually wear one every Sunday and for other worship services, and also sometimes when I'm visiting in the hospital (but not always). Partly this is aethetic: I think the black Geneva gown looks better with a clerical collar than with the shirt-and-tie collar (again, it's about not wanting to look like a Baptist preacher man). Also, I think the issue of 'role' is important. When I am there to lead worship or do other functions that are my specific role as a Minister of Word and Sacrament, I am there to occupy a particular role. And finally, it's also about my age as a 26-year-old ordained minister (in fact, I was only 24 at ordination). For people who maybe are visiting or otherwise not a regular part of the congregation, it's a lot easier to believe that "that kid" is the pastor when I look the part.

sancho032

Posts:8

02/19/2008 8:04 PM
I have read through all of the posts and I have to say that I disagree with a lot of you on this topic. Clothes do not make a minister and should not make a minister. Sure it is important to look presentable (and that means different things to differnt people and places), but to spend so much time and emphasis on what one puts on I think is missing the mark. Where does it say that to be a minister of the word that one has to get dressed up? Is this God's requirement or one that we have created on our own? If I wear jeans and a t-shirt to preach does that make my message any less valid? People will view as a minister when you act like one. People will respect you when you earn it. People will hear God's word when they listen to and for it. God is still speaking...God speaks in sandals...God speaks in a dress...God speaks in a dirty diaper...God speaks in silence. Wear what makes you comfortable and if that is an alb or a geneva robe or shirt and tie so be it. God doesn't care what you have on...God cares about what you say and what you do in God's name!!!!

God is Love! - Josh

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