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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 02/15/2007 1:33 AM |
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| So...I apologize if I'm really just being too lazy to search out this information in the "stretch your mind" link, but I have a question about an aspect of the UCC. What is the general view - or possibly, what is the range of views - on interfaith relations? I have seen the wonderful advocacy by the Justice and Peace Action Network, but I am wondering, is the UCC reaching out to build peace among the faiths of the world? This is an issue that is very important to me, but is unfortunately quite rare among most denominations. Thanks! Peace, Kathy |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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iucc
Posts:265
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| 02/15/2007 5:27 PM |
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| Yes, Kathy, the UCC has been deeply involved in interfaith (and of course, ecumenical) relationships for years. We work closely with the Interfaith Commission of the National Council of Churches, and participated in drafting the NCC foundational document on interfaith relations, which was adopted by the General Synod some years ago. More information at http://www.ucc.org/ecumenical/interfaith.htm. |
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Andy Lang
Minister for Web Community and Communication
Local Church Ministries
United Church of Christ |
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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 02/15/2007 7:03 PM |
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Thank you for the information!
I visited the link to ucc.org's interfaith/ecumenical statements. That is fantasic that the UCC is involved in reaching out to other faiths. I think largely the Christian media/pop culture (pardon that term!) have moved on from finding it difficult to relate with other Christians, for such things as nationality, denomination, even race -- so much of the Christian mainstream is interdenominational anyway. What I think is really the challenge now in bridging the gaps with our brothers and sisters of the world is reaching out to people even outside the Christian faith.
As I read the information on ucc.org, I saw quotes of the questions that I'm sure are on a few people's minds, such as how one should support an interfaith relationship while there are Bible verses that say Jesus is definitively "the way". I would love to hear anyone's opinion on this sort of thing!
Thanks again! -Kathy
P.S. Just discovered a fantastic chapter of the Bible -- Acts 10: wonderful and relevent to this issue! |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 02/17/2007 6:43 PM |
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Posted By Stekala on 02/15/2007 7:03 PM
Thank you for the information!
I visited the link to ucc.org's interfaith/ecumenical statements. That is fantasic that the UCC is involved in reaching out to other faiths. I think largely the Christian media/pop culture (pardon that term!) have moved on from finding it difficult to relate with other Christians, for such things as nationality, denomination, even race -- so much of the Christian mainstream is interdenominational anyway. What I think is really the challenge now in bridging the gaps with our brothers and sisters of the world is reaching out to people even outside the Christian faith.
As I read the information on ucc.org, I saw quotes of the questions that I'm sure are on a few people's minds, such as how one should support an interfaith relationship while there are Bible verses that say Jesus is definitively "the way". I would love to hear anyone's opinion on this sort of thing!
Thanks again! -Kathy
P.S. Just discovered a fantastic chapter of the Bible -- Acts 10: wonderful and relevent to this issue!
Dear Stekala,
I am not speaking for the UCC, but I would like to say that there are different ways one can understand the Bible verses that say that Jesus is the only way. First, we must remember that we are reading an English translation, that may or may not be accurate, and that the three probable languages spoken in Biblical times (Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek) have multiple meanings for many of their words. Second, Jesus was speaking from an enlightened state of consciousness. There is the possibility in each of us to Know God within (And it's not that difficult!). To have a level of consciousness that is always aware of the divinity within, is called "God Consciousness." It's the perception that "God is in me and I am in God." This has also been called "the Christ Consciousness." Jesus was in his "Christ Consciousness" when he said that "I Am" the way, (In my opinion) he was saying that his inner awareness of "I Am" (remember Moses?) is that way. That is the truth, whether you are a "follower" Jesus, the "Christian" religion or some other path. It is possible for everyone of us to be in touch with God within. And then recognize that if it's possible for me, it's also possible for everyone. So when I look at someone else, I know that they, too, are expressions of God and that God is living within them.
(I think) it is absolutely necessary to have this awareness of the "inner Christ" in order to be conscious of the "kingdom/ queendom of heaven" that is all around us. (the word "kingdom" was translated from the word "Malkuta," which is gendered feminine in Aramaic).
I could go on, but I won't. . . . for now. (smile)
Namaste,
Susannah
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 02/18/2007 1:37 PM |
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Thank you Susannah, those were wonderful thoughts. I must say, I completely agree with you in your interpretation of those Bible verses. And yes, I've always kept in mind the translation issue!
A long time before I discovered the Bible, I knew I beleived in everyone's right and worth in finding their own path to God. One side of my family comes from Jews (though I never knew her, my grandmother was an almost the stereotypical Jewish mother - still spoke Yiddish from Russia and solved every problem with food! :) ). When I hear my conservative friends talk about their way as the only way into heaven, it makes me think it is only so easy for them to say this because their entire family is completely Christian! Though I never knew many of my Jewish relatives (both of my grandparents on that side past away before I was born), from the way my Dad talks about them, I can't wrap my mind around a loving God who would send those people to hell.
Still, I wanted to find a way to understand those Bible verses within this context and not simply discard them. I've often come back to the conclusion that Christ and what God sent to us so that we may have salvation, was not simply a physical man to believe in, but what this man was saying and doing. The truth of the Gospel was and is so much more than that indeed Jesus of Nazereth was the son of God, but that his wisdom was divine and should be followed with all of one's heart. If one is following the way of loving God with all of his/her heart, mind, and strength, and loving his/her neighbor like themselves, then they are following the way of God and that is good enough for me!
It's a bit funny when you think about it, what crazy things people say and do in the name of a Savior of peace, love, and compassion....
Thank you again!
Blessings, not only to the ones who kneel,
Kathy |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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rebcamuse
Posts:154
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| 02/18/2007 10:06 PM |
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Posted By Stekala on 02/15/2007 7:03 PM
Thank you for the information!
I visited the link to ucc.org's interfaith/ecumenical statements. That is fantasic that the UCC is involved in reaching out to other faiths. I think largely the Christian media/pop culture (pardon that term!) have moved on from finding it difficult to relate with other Christians, for such things as nationality, denomination, even race -- so much of the Christian mainstream is interdenominational anyway. What I think is really the challenge now in bridging the gaps with our brothers and sisters of the world is reaching out to people even outside the Christian faith.
As I read the information on ucc.org, I saw quotes of the questions that I'm sure are on a few people's minds, such as how one should support an interfaith relationship while there are Bible verses that say Jesus is definitively "the way". I would love to hear anyone's opinion on this sort of thing!
Thanks again! -Kathy
I can speak to an "interfaith" relationship--sort of. ;-) My husband is an atheist (I contend that he's really an agnostic, but I don't argue the issue...). To me, when Jesus says He is the Way, there is a reason he talks about the Way (much in the same way Taoism does). In my opinion, walking the walk is so much more important than talking the talk. What I mean by that is that I don't think Jesus cared quite so much about getting credit for the Way, than perpetuating the Way.
I sometimes joke that my husband is a better Christian than I am. He's got an ethical code very much in alignment with Jesus' Way. That he chooses not to identify it with Jesus matters little to me. The source isn't as important as the product.
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Rebecca M
Somerville, MA |
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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 02/19/2007 1:36 AM |
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Wow Rebecca, could I agree more? I just don't think I could! :)
You seem like a wonderfully mature Christian, to realize our fallicy in walking the true path of Christ, no matter how vehemently we argue for its sovereignty in the eyes of God. I'm a big fan of humility, but then again, I probably don't use it as much as I would like to think!
Peace,
Kathy |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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rebcamuse
Posts:154
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| 02/21/2007 10:42 AM |
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Posted By Stekala on 02/19/2007 1:36 AM
Wow Rebecca, could I agree more? I just don't think I could! :)
You seem like a wonderfully mature Christian, to realize our fallicy in walking the true path of Christ, no matter how vehemently we argue for its sovereignty in the eyes of God. I'm a big fan of humility, but then again, I probably don't use it as much as I would like to think!
Peace,
Kathy Hi Kathy,
Well, I'm not sure I'm there yet, LOL. I think Christianity/faith journeys are largely about spiritual maturation. I like to think I'm headed in the right direction, but I'm quite far still from "Enlightenment" :-) Thank you for the compliment, nevertheless.
Humility is difficult. Fine line between pride and self-confidence.
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Rebecca M
Somerville, MA |
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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 02/21/2007 11:22 AM |
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| Indeed, quite difficult! And yes, I don't suppose any of us here have reached true "enlightmenment," or why would we be here??? :)
It will take an incredible about of strength and probably time - unfortunately - to live up to Jesus' example. Still, I think that we do have some good ideas on what direction we should be heading!
Have a great week!
Kathy |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 02/22/2007 1:01 PM |
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Rebecca, (and Kathy),
I agree with your "the Way" insight. That is so true, he really was an embodiment of what he taught, and what the Hebrew scriptures teach. He was a demonstration of the Truth. His Life was a demonstration of the Truth and the Way for others to find Truth and Wisdom. And I think his "death" and resurection was a demonstration of the Truth of eternal life. I do not believe that eternal life depends upon "believing that Jesus was the ONLY son of God." [I think ] life is eternal, whether we believe it or not. And I believe that we are all (metaphorical) "sons and daughters" of God; we are "individualized expressions" of the One. But I still love Jesus and the Wisdom that he lived and taught.
And yes, that "One" could be called "the Tao" or "Allah" or "Allaha" (the Aramaic word Jesus used), or "YHVH," (Yah-Hey-Vav-Hey) or "Mind," or any other cultural name for the divine (creative-intelligence, loving power, source and substance of all that is).
Love and Blessings,
Susannah
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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Russ Kohrs
Posts:3
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| 02/27/2007 1:14 PM |
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One thing seems to be missing from this discussion of Christ. Jesus Christ is unique among world religions, is He not? God comes down to earth to live and talk with us, to be with and love us up close. He then dies for our sins and rises from the grave. Christianity makes unique claims. Jesus makes unique claims. A quick read of the Gospel of John will illustrate this as time and again, Jesus asks if the one's whom he heals "believe" in Him. If believing in Him as the way was not important, then why did He stress it so much? Why did He stress salvation through grace rather than works? Most world religions, the rest of them as far as I know, rely on works rather than grace.
Convicted and inspired by Solus Christus! |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 02/27/2007 4:08 PM |
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Jesus Christ is unique among world religions, is He not?
Well, maybe not. Krishna was said to be an embodiment of God.
But most Biblical scholars agree that the book of John was unique of the Gospels. That means different. The Gospel of John has one sentence that was probably spoken by Jesus, "A prophet gets no respect on his own turf." (Funk, Hoover, and the Jesus Seminar. The Five Gospels, What Did Jesus Really Say?. HarperSanFrancisco. 1993).
This does change the reverence I hold for Yeshua (Christ) of Nazareth.
Respectfully,
Susannah |
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 02/27/2007 5:18 PM |
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I understand what Russ is saying. You just can't ignore how much the Bible shows Jesus stressing the way to salvation in believing in him as the Way, Truth, and Light, and thus deduce that he is the sole and unique way to God. But see, there are different ways to apply this. I do believe in Jesus as The Way, but I think what we are talking about here is THE SPIRIT of Jesus - what he embodies, more than just the man. I don't actually understand how saying "I believe the man Jesus is the Son of God" and not thinking more about why (what he embodied: grace, love, mercy, etc..), you're really getting anywhere spiritually. You can be brought up believing vehemently that Jesus is the absolute way (and many do) but not really why you believe that or what it means for your life.
I definitely agree with what russ was saying about Jesus coming down to love us up close, etc.. That's what I think the point is. I believe God sent Jesus to show us the Way - the way of love, grace, mercy, compassion, peace, faith. And we as disciples should respond by following this way. It's more than declaring the person to be holy. If we spend our lives bickering about that (and many do!), we're missing the point of what Jesus was trying to teach us about what the way is, and what he is all about. That's actually one thing that i think might have been left out of the Bible as we have it (the books that were chosen) -- more of the actual philospohy of Jesus. A lot of it talks about the truth of the Way, but it doesn't include quite as much of the actual teaching as I would like. This can also be seen in Acts, when it is a lot of information about Paul's journey to teach the gospel, but not a lot about what he was actually saying! It just says things such as "he sat down and preached to the people" - I would like to know what he said! :) But I digress...I just think we need to think about other ways of thinking about what Jesus was talking about when he talks about himself.
Just a thought... Have a lovely day!
Peace, Kathy |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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jimk
Posts:35
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| 02/28/2007 3:20 AM |
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| I don’t agree with Russ about the idea that Grace is uniquely Christian and that all other religions are essentially works oriented. I hope I’m not misrepresenting you Russ. One of the things I have always wondered about is whether there is a relationship between grace and what Zen Buddhists call Satori, which I guess means enlightenment. As I understand it, a Zen novice will work very hard at perfecting a kind of practice, but the moment of enlightenment itself is not self created. It happens when it happens and transforms a person in a way that cannot be prefabricated. I see this as being very much like grace, which we do not earn, but which God freely gives. Of course we make our best effort, but in the end it is God’s grace that sustains us.
If there is anything unique about Christianity and Jesus, I think it is the cross. I think Luther said something like that. But that is how I feel.
To me the cross means something like this: when you recognize that others are precious, you begin to care. When you care, you freely take on yourself a responsibility for the well being of others. You become a servant to their real needs. Servanthood is a costly burden to bear, because you must very often deny your own comforts in order to truly meet the needs of those you serve. In fact, I think that progressively, as a person grows in the walk with Christ, the burden (cross) will grow more heavy. You discover that being a servant is killing you. The paradox is that, as the weight increases and the proximity to death draws nearer, we begin to realize that we are not actually dying, but approaching life in all its fullness.
This experience and its explication in the story of the journey to the cross, seems to me to be what is unique to Christianity. My guess is that everything else is basically unoriginal, and can be found in one form or another in many other religions. What do you think?
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Russ Kohrs
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| 02/28/2007 11:05 AM |
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Just so everyone knows, I don't accept the conclusions of the Jesus Seminar (like lot's of other Christians) because they completely ignore anything of supernatural origin. Miracles aren't possible, so we have to throw those out, Virgin Birth couldn't happen, so we have to throw that out, etc. I just wanted folks to know where I am coming from there. To me, the Gospel of John is the BEST Gospel for a new believer to read, because it focuses so much on Jesus humanity as well as His divinity.
JimK, I don't think you misrepresented what I said. My viewpoints are a mixture of mainly evangelical and orthodox perspectives. So, Sola Gratia (By Grace Alone) and Solus Christus (Through Christ Alone) are very important bedrock principles. Really, I like all five solas...
I think though, that I agree with the latter part of your statement about our accumulated burdens through service. I think that one of the greatest unique features of Christianity is the cross, that God would send His Son to die for us and to take away our iniquities. What are we really worth? Why would He want to save depraved, sin-infested beings like us? The greatest expression of love is perhaps to be willing to die for that person and that is a message that can transcend culture. |
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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 02/28/2007 11:56 AM |
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First, I'd like to say I think it's wonderful that we have such civil diversity!! Really, we all should be proud to be a part of a faith community that can respect different opinions so well -- I hope you all know how rare that is!
Second, I'd like to say a big "Thanks!" to JimK for his words. They were a beautiful reminder of what the Christian faith teaches us. The paradox of life and death and mercy is beautiful.
The thing is about the uniqueness of Christianity, in my opinion, is that of course, it is unique as all religions are, but I would like to think there is some common thread, a shared spirit between all the great world religions that opens the door for all of us. See, it seems that we can be desperate that the faith that we've often committed our entire life to is the sole and absolute way, and this is the only way to reach heaven. But I would really rather that my brothers and sisters here and around the world that are faithful Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, etc, can be touched by Grace as well. I have seen the beauty in their faith, and I have no reason to make mine the only legitimate one - nor would I want to.
Actually, anyone who is interested might check out what Mother Theresa said on this subject. As she was in India, with a predominately Hindu and Muslim population, she received much criticims and hostility because people thought she was there to try to convert them. She was not though, and she told them this. She said that a "Catholic must be a good Catholic, a Hindu must be a good Hindu, a Muslim must be a good Muslim - - to me there is no difference". Interestingly enough, I discovered this about her in a movie on her life on TBN ... Irony is a funny thing ;)
Peace to you all!
Kathy |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 02/28/2007 12:48 PM |
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Thank you Kathy,
Your words are eloquent. (yours too, Jim)
Grace is a gift of God. The One. If we truly believe in One God, there can be no other, only various expressions of that One. Just as (I believe) we are each unique expressions of our Source and our Creator (God), so is each religious/spiritual tradition. The differences are in perceptions based on culture and individuality. As long as we are in our human bodies our perceptions are filtered through our individualities. Thus, the many different impressions of Jesus, expressed in the Gospels (including the ones that got excluded) [that's politics not Grace]. But the way, the light, and the truth shines through all the versions. The way I sees it is that Jesus was pointing to the Way. Others see him as The Way. I see Jesus indicating that we all are sons and daughters of God; others see him as the only son of God. Some people believe that heaven is something to be obtained after death; I believe that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, is amoungst us. Right here and right now, If we have eyes to see.
I respect those with different beliefs and perceptions. And for some (human) reason, I would like them to respect me too. But I know it's okay if they don't. It's that "birds of a feather" thing again.
Grace be with you now and always,
Susannah
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 03/01/2007 12:26 PM |
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I'd like to share a poem by Rainer Maria Rilke:
I believe in all that has never yet been spoken.
I want to free what waits within me
so that what no one has dared to wish for
may for once spring clear
without my contriving.
If this is arrogant, God, forgive me,
but this is what I need to say.
May what I do flow from me like a river,
no forcing and no holding back,
the way it is with children.
Then in these swelling and ebbing currents,
these deepening tides moving out, returning,
I will sing you as no one ever has,
streaming through widening channels
into the open sea.
~ (Rilke’s Book of Hours: Love Poems to God, translated by Anita Barrows and Joanna Macy) |
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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jimk
Posts:35
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| 03/02/2007 3:41 AM |
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Russ,
I don’t agree that God sent his Son to die for us. I think he sent his Son to love us and that Jesus accepted his crucifixion as the cost of living out that love. And I don't think that his death removed our iniquities. I completely reject the notion of substitutionary atonement.
Jim
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Stekala
Posts:46
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| 03/02/2007 11:52 AM |
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JimK-
All I have to say is....Rock on.
:)
-Kathy |
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"The shackles are undone/The bullets quit the gun/The heat that's in the sun..will keep us when there's none
The rule has been disproved/ The stone it has been moved/ The grave is now a groove/ All debts are removed" - "Window in the Skies" - U2 (third world debt relief - visit www.jubileeusa.org) |
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jimk
Posts:35
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| 03/02/2007 10:33 PM |
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| With regard to Interfaith relations, I'd like to help keep us focused here (if I may) and reask a question that I think is already sort of floating in all this.
- If Christianity is the one path to salvation, then what is it that is essential to Christianity, but not found in other religions that substantiates this claim?
And if you can't identify that essential difference and find that each assertion either falls apart or turns out to be unoriginal, then I don't see how it is possible to continue to insist on a preferred status for Christianity.
And if you can, I'd be very interested to hear what you have to say.
I am a Christian and my understanding of the cross and resurrection speaks to my life in a way that nothing else does - so that it is the center from which I draw meaning. I think that many people who feel lost in life ought to devote themselves to searching the Gospels for meaning and I would like to help engage people in it.
But I really have a problem with any approach that treats people as though what they are coming out of is inferior or meaningless in comparison to the Gospel faith. |
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subear
Posts:774
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| 03/05/2007 11:49 AM |
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There probably IS something unique to Christianity that Christians find as a definitive factor for why it is "the best" religion. But can all Christians agree upon what that is? There probably is something unique to each of the religions of the world that cause believers to proclaim that their religion is "the best." And there are so many versions of all of these that I do not think there should be a contest (or war) about who has the best or the "only true path of God," (all others be damned!).
I think interfaith relations depend upon respect for differences, recognition of similarities, and (for those comfortable enough in their own relationship with the divine) "borrowing" practices and attitudes from one another. It certainly doesn't hurt to actually study other religions with an unbiased attitude; with an attitude of respect and desire to learn rather than an attitude of trying to prove why the other is wrong. What is right for me may be different than what is right for you.
God is huge, unfathomable; source, substance and creator of all that is. There is great variety in life and all is included in God. God is Love. Love one another. Love God. We are loving God when we are loving one another.
With Love,
Susannah
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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jimk
Posts:35
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| 03/05/2007 12:53 PM |
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I also feel that "God is Love." But then, in order for that to have meaning, my next question is: What is love? And a further question: Which portrayal of love in the world do you find most compelling and why?
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subear
Posts:774
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| 03/05/2007 4:10 PM |
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Jim asks:
"I also feel that "God is Love." But then, in order for that to have
meaning, my next question is: What is love? And a further question:
Which portrayal of love in the world do you find most compelling and
why?"
What a good question.
That's a question I have been
asking myself all of my life. Not that I haven't been able to come up
with some answers, but they change. When I was a child, at Sunday
school, the one thing that allowed me to "believe" in God was the
statement God is Love. "Okay," I thought, "that works for me."
That was my focus of devotion and very devotional, I was. I don't
think I questioned myself with, "what is love?" I just knew love.
As
a teenager I learned about Agape love and Eros love. So,
there's a difference between "Godly Love" and human love for one
another? According to the Hellenic Greek philosophers there is.
And
then, of course, there's that great letter (which we all know) to the
Corinthians from Paul [sounding rather like Plato] that tells them that
it doesn't matter how much they know, or how great their visions are,
or if they have super human abilities; if they don't have Love, they
are like meaningless noise.
He describes love as patient,
kind, without envy, not provoked to anger, doesn't even think about
evil, is happy about truth not misfortune. Love holds all things,
believes all things, hopes all things, and endures all things. [that
sounds like all inclusive.]
Then he goes on to talk about
the evolution of perception: "When I was a child, I thought as a child;
but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see
through a mirror, darkly; but then face to face." [when? when we are
enlightened? when we are in heaven? when we experience "the Christ"?
after all, he's writing to Greeks.] He's saying that love is more
important than any of the other virtues or spiritual gifts.
In
my twenties, my Indian spiritual teacher said that "Love is the finest
impulse of creation, love is the glue of the universe." Love is
that first impulse of creation. The first impulse to create. I'm
talking about the universal creation, and I'm talking about each
individual intention to create. And love is the law of
attraction that holds everything together.
Then, I hear the poem by Browning, saying that, "all is Love and all is
Law." "This sounds like God," I think. God is the essence
of Love and governs through law [aka: the laws of nature, the laws of
physics]. Science, Philosophy and Theology all investigate, discover
and try to define the same thing: what is the source, nature and
function of life? And I suppose the theologian, philosopher, and the
poet also ask the question, "why?".
Right now, I'm studying
Classical Philosophy [drives me crazy]. In Plato's, Symposium,
he has Socrates say that love is the desire for something we don't yet
possess, and/or the desire to hold on to something that we do possess.
[that sounds like jealousy, to me]. Then, he says that love is
the desire to possess (and/or hold onto) that which we consider
beautiful. As I read this, I'm having a problem. Then I see that some
translations use the word "eros" and others use "love." That explains
it.
Okay, so we're talking about Agape Love as the Love
that is God. But is that really true? Isn't God in all the details of
life? Is God in both Eros and Agape?
It seems that my personal
definition of love has evolved beyond desire for something or
someone I don't have. I'm not saying that I am beyond desire. I still
have desires. But I'm saying that I am seeing Love as beyond desire.
[but, is that completely true? I ask myself.]
It seems
that I am thinking/feeling that Love is a quality of God that is beyond
conditions, "Unconditional Love." It is the impulse of giving-ness; it
is the quality of kindness and compassion for all things; all people,
all animals, plants, the earth, and the universe. Love is communion
with Life; Life expressing itself and Life itself; it is the
expression of Existence, of Being, which is God.
I think
Love exists in a Pure (Absolute) state, but it is Love expressing in
relationships that I find most compelling. It is in the knowing and
being known that brings me Joy.
And then, there's Rumi: (the Sufi Poet) who expresses his love (and longing) for God as Love for his Beloved.
All Through Eternity
Beauty unveils His exquisite form
in the solitude of nothingness;
He holds a mirror to His Face
and beholds His own beauty.
he is the knower and the known,
the seer and the seen;
No eye but His own
has ever looked upon this Universe.
His every quality finds an expression:
Eternity becomes the verdant field of Time and Space;
Love, the life-giving garden of this world.
Every branch and leaf and fruit
Reveals an aspect of His perfection-
The cypress give hint of His majesty,
The rose gives tidings of His beauty.
Whenever Beauty looks,
Love is also there;
Whenever beauty shows a rosy cheek
Love lights Her fire from that flame.
When beauty dwells in the dark folds of night
Love comes and finds a heart
entangled in tresses.
Beauty and Love are as body and soul.
Beauty is the mine, Love is the diamond.
They have been together
since the beginning of time-
Side by side, step by step.
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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jimk
Posts:35
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| 03/05/2007 9:56 PM |
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| Lots of good stuff! I was just thinking about what last Sunday’s Gospel passage in Luke 13:34-35 has to say to us about God’s love. Jesus is looking over Jerusalem. He is very conscious of the unnecessary suffering that people inflict on each other- the exploitation and abuse that goes on under the hum of daily life in the city. And so his heart reaches out to them and he compares himself to a Mother Hen, who wants to care for her chicks, but they refuse. Something about the way the hen “broods” over its chicks speaks powerfully about what God is like. i.e. I think the Mother hen is one good image for exploring what it means to say that “God is love.” |
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