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calvinistcourier
Posts:2
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| 09/08/2006 11:41 AM |
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Currently I am in the ordination process with the Presbyterian Church, but am having more and more discomfort with the direction my denomination is heading. It concerns me that we have become as centralized and hierarchical as we have, and the current prohibition on active homosexual clergy seems to fly in the face of what I see Scripture teaching about justice and inclusion. The truth is that I'm growing weary of identifying myself as "Presbyterian, but..."
The UCC's emphasis on Christian theological diversity, social justice, inclusion, and congregational autonomy seems very attractive to me. While recognizing that no denomination is perfect, it would be nice to be part of a faith community that better addresses these concerns.
Is there anyone on here that has gone through a similar struggle? What finally made the decision for you? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance for your help!
God bless,
Mike
calvinistcourier@yahoo.com |
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keyless.chuck
Posts:58
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| 09/08/2006 2:25 PM |
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Hello Mike,
I am in a somewhat similar situation. Although I am not in the ordination process (just a layperson), I am an ELCA member who is disappointed with the path that my current church body is taking, and am in the process of joining a UCC congregation. I disagreed with the decision last summer by the ELCA Churchwide Assembly that maintined the church's prohibitions on gay and lesbian clergy in committed relationships and the blessing of such committed relationships. While this decision concerned me, it is not an issue by itself that would drive me away from the church body -- I could, after all, continue to stay an ELCA member and work for a change to the policy in the future. But, I see this decision as just one part of a bigger issue: the fact that the church body is telling its members that certain ways of understanding and interpreting Scripture are not as valuable, honest, or truth-seeking as what others ways are. This affects not only the issue of inclusivity, but also the overarching message of the Gospel that the church body preaches as well. Much like you have grown weary of the "Presbyterian" identity, I, too, have grown weary of identifying myself as "Lutheran", when that is more and more meaning something that I cannot defend.
I have found my local UCC congregation extremely welcoming and open to individual thought and exploration. Are there people in the local congregation with whom I disagree? Absolutely. But, we can still recognize each other as Christians, and recognize that we are each struggling with the same issues of what the meaning of Jesus is for us today. I do not ever feel that others frown on my beliefs. The people I have talked to locally seem to understand that everyone's belief system is inherently flawed -- that no one individual can make a claim to absolute spiritual truth. The UCC church body seems to support this idea, and I am proud to say that I becoming part of such a body. I am proud to say that my new church body does not require me to make intellectual and spiritual commitments with which I am uncomfortable (professing the Nicene Creed on a weekly basis, for example). It is this openness to inquiry, as well as the friendly and welcoming local congregation and pastoral leadership, that have helped my family and me to come to the conclusion that this is where God is leading us to today.
I still struggle with the idea that I am turning my back on an identity that I have held my entire life. But, it is more important to me to be true to my spritual and intellectual growth (as well as to contribute to the growth and support of the congregational community) in such an environment as what the UCC provides than to stay in an environment in which I feel spiritually stunted and can no longer contribute to the community and its spiritual development.
I hope this makes sense. Best wishes with your decision. |
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"We do not draw people to Christ by loudly discrediting what they believe, by telling them how wrong they are and how right we are, but by showing them a light that is so lovely that they want with all their hearts to know the source of it." --Madeleine L'Engle |
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iucc
Posts:318
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| 09/09/2006 2:30 PM |
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Dear Mike, thanks for your note!
I should say, for the record, that the UCC has an excellent relationship with the PC(USA) and it wouldn't be my place to criticize the denomination. I did think it was a step forward when the General Assembly voted this summer to give presbyteries more freedom to determine their ordination policies.
Now, there are quite a few "spiritual refugees" who've found a home in the UCC. I'm a former Roman Catholic, and in some of our congregations in Massachusetts (where the UCC is the second largest church after the Roman Catholic Church) as many as fifty percent of the members are ex-RC. We also draw people who've left evangelical and pentecostal churches. And very often these new members bring something of value from the tradition they've left -- and enrich the UCC thereby.
My decision to leave the Roman Catholic church was made many years ago in college. I've never looked back, but I continue to relate to a Benedictine community in Washington that is rather like a second home, and many of the spiritual disciplines I learned as a Catholic continue to inform my journey.
I don't think the UCC is better than other traditions, but partly because of our history and partly because of our ecclesiology, we're not so deeply divided over the "culture wars" that are splitting other churches. The fact that our General Synod speaks "to" but not "for" local congregations, and that congregations have the right to make their own choices on controversial issues like ordination and same-sex marriage, means that debates in our Synod don't have such an apocalyptic tone -- or necessarily create a sense of "winners" and "losers." There are disadvantages to this system, too, but it seems to work reasonably well. |
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Andy Lang
Minister for Web Community and Communication
Local Church Ministries
United Church of Christ |
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calvinistcourier
Posts:2
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| 09/26/2006 3:44 PM |
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First of all, thanks to everyone for the thoughts on my question of UCC-ism and Presbyterianism... it's fascinating to get everyone's take on things.
Just to give anyone who cares an update, my decision is still up in the air, and it is frustrating to be unsure as to where God is calling me. Part of the trouble is this; being institutions made up of fallen human beings, there is a fundamental disconnect between what each denomination aspires to be, and that they are in actual practice. The UCC seems to aspire to be a congregationally based denomination where the autonomy of the local church is paramount, while the Presbyterian Church seems to have aspirations of trying to bring everyone under its banner together in a unified, faithful and coherent manner. Needless to say, both fail in their attempts. The question is, where would my service be most faithful.
Here's some of my basic theological considerations edited from a letter to my current (Presbyterian) committee on preparation for ministry. I'd be curious for anyone's feedback. Thanks again for your help!
Letter excerpt:
If I remember right, I think that I shared with you some of my concerns with covenanting with the Presbyterian Church for the long haul. On one level I am very much concerned by what I see to be a lack of faithfulness to the justice, grace, and love inherent in the Gospel by our denomination's continued insistence on a narrow interpretation of "Fidelity/chastity". Although there are admittedly changes afoot with the fallout of the PUP report, there is a faithfulness and integrity issue at stake for me that causes me to be uncertain as to whether this is the place that I could most faithfully serve the church.
Part of what makes this issue so intractable in my observation is that we have developed a polity that prevents compromise and consensus. We sadly have a winner-take-all approach to decision making that seems to me to be very far removed from the humble discernment that I believe God is actually calling us to. More and more I have come to see the local congregation as the building block of the church. When local congregations are granted autonomy and flexibility they have an ability to reach compromise and mutual (but respectful) disagreement with other congregations in the denomination that may feel God calling them in a different direction. A federated and decentralized church seems to be the only hope for real Christian unity; rather than a coercive and often repressive approach that in my mind often breeds the distrust and false unity that I see too often in the denomination right now.
This frustration has been something of a revelation to me. Maybe it wasn't social justice issues after all; maybe something much more fundamental was at work. After much prayer, conversation with my pastor, friends, and directed study of Scripture I have begun to wonder whether the more congregationally based polity that I had experienced in college during my days worshipping in a Disciples of Christ Church is actually a more faithful representation of the relational theology that I base my ecclesiology on. What I experienced in that situation was a more genuine community based on the increased ownership of the church by the members when big decisions are made as congregation rather than as a Presbytery or session meeting behind closed doors. In my experience the Holy Spirit is more readily accessible when mre people are involved in the prayer and discernment, and when decisions are made in a transparent and egalitarian manner. In my mind relational theology places the community of believers at the center of the church, and anything that impedes that community from developing to its fullest extent is at best irrelevant, at worst dangerous. This has theological implications in all aspects of the church, whther it is the administration of the sacraments or the place of the Presbytery in relationship to the congregation. These are all issues that I am struggling with at the moment. In one sense they are all already fairly clear in my mind, and if I were able to design the "perfect" church they would not be problems at all. However, as I said earlier it is a faithfulness and integrity question for me. While I know enough about Presbyterian polity to be able to succssfully work around, over, and through certain aspects which are problematic to me, the truth of the matter is that at this moment I would have trouble saying that Presbyterianism best represents where I feel God calling me to be.
As a result of that uncertainty, I would like to request my first meeting with CPM be moved until November so that I might have a little bit more time in which to hopefully get a better sense of where my talents and gifts might be most faithfully used...
There is no doubt in my mind that God is doing exciting things in the Presbyterian Church. It is full of wonderful and faithful Christians who have brought me to this place in my life. The question is whether that relationship should continue or whether there is another place that might be a better match for my call. |
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bmrathbun
Posts:68
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| 09/30/2006 9:55 PM |
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I think your honesty about your struggle will be helpful to your Committee on Ministry as they work to help you discern your path. The Holy Spirit can work in wonderful ways--even in committees! Ideally, when we gather as a community of people to work together to bring forth--to help birth--a new minister and ministry, we do so with prayer, with open hearts and minds. Know that you are held up with our prayers as you work on discernment, and that your committee, too, is tucked in our prayer pockets, that together you may come to a healthy, blessed understanding of your ministry among God's people.
Pastor Barbara, i-guide for Opening the Bible |
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