| Author |
Messages |
|
iucc
Posts:318
 |
| 04/03/2006 12:54 PM |
|
| Welcome to our discussion area for What's the UCC? i.guides Daniel Schultz and Lisa Hart will guide this conversation through a six-session course on the history and future of the United Church of Christ. Resources are posted on the "What's the UCC?" opening page. Feel free to ask any questions you like about our church. If you're already a UCC member, this is a place where you can continue to explore our community! |
|
Andy Lang
Minister for Web Community and Communication
Local Church Ministries
United Church of Christ |
|
|
dalewebb
Posts:1
|
| 04/03/2006 8:32 PM |
|
Hi folks,
My name is Dale. I am a Presbyterian minister looking to make a refreshing change to join up with the UCC. I'm new to this blog phenomenon, so if I get tangled up, please gently bail me out. I am looking forward to the days to come. |
|
|
|
|
Jim
Posts:1
|
| 04/03/2006 9:41 PM |
|
Wow, Dale--a minister looking for a change? I'm a layperson, member of the same Lutheran church for some 35 years. 'Glad to see a professional looking towards UCC, too. I'm planning on visiting and eventually joining a UCC ONA congregation somewhere in the D.C. area. I've grown discontented with the ELCA Lutheran denomination over the last few years. My feeling is that many Lutherans are becoming Bible literalists, and pulling the ELCA away from its Lutheran roots. My home congregation is actually debating creationism to some extent--an issue that in my opinion is debated seriously only by fundamentalists. Is UCC more Lutheran than the ELCA? I think so! Sincerely, Jim |
|
|
|
|
RuralUCC
Posts:27
|
| 04/04/2006 1:33 AM |
|
Hello. I have been UCC for about 9 years. I grew up "fundamentalist" but without a church. I have enjoyed my time in the UCC and am exited to read (on this site) about new people looking to join us. One thing that I love about the UCC is that people can openly state their own views and not have other's ideas enforced upon them. Clergy tend to act like servants to their congregation rather than monarchs. Additionally, I have found that being low on doctrine helps to break down barriers that exist in other churches and allows for a wider range of dogma--without force. It's about time that the Church does not get in the way of the Church. I was sad to recently learn that my niece with down syndrome will never be baptized because of the beliefs of her church. They say, she has a "one way ticket to heaven;" that's nice, but why should that prevent her from participating in the sacraments and having a place in the Body of Christ? Anyway, I just want to say God Bless You to all who read this.
Grace and Peace,
Ted |
|
|
|
|
baronsabato
Posts:78
|
| 04/06/2006 5:41 AM |
|
Hi, I'm a former Southern-Baptist-fundamentalist-turned-proud-member-of-the-United-Church-of-Christ. In actuality, I was raised in the Southern Baptist church but stopped going when I was in middle school. Much of this was due to my own questioning and doubts, even at such a young age. Most of my questions dealt with very typical issues: evolution, the fate of people from non-Christian faiths, gay and lesbian rights, etc. I guess some people might think these questions were way too sophisticated for a middle schooler, but I think that they were just the kinds of questions a lot of kids were having- it was just that I happened to ask them.
While I believed the answers they gave me for some time (and let me reassure you that these answers were all from the most conservative standpoints ever), I found my faith in God wavering, partly because He seemed to be so far away and distant. That's when I left the church. Even so, I am so grateful to the church for many things, including giving me a love and passion for the Bible that most kids at that age didn't have as well as a hunger for a spiritual community that has lasted me for quite some time.
Long story short, I started exploring other faiths, including no faith at all, but found myself constantly pulled back to Christianity. It was like Christ kept asking me to turn back to him, no matter how much I resisted. I tried a few mainline churches in the area late in my high school career, but none really excited me. Finally, once I hit college, I began attending the Congregational UCC down the block. It was like a breath of fresh air. This great church, with great people and tremendous faith, was the community I had been looking for! Even though I have fairly traditional theological beliefs (and I often feel more comfortable talking about God and the Bible with my more Evangelical friends than I do with my mainline Protestant friends), I feel completely at home here in the UCC. No longer do I have to worry about asking questions, or admitting that I may not have the answer. Finally, I belong to a church where I can look for God in acts of social justice and be thankful for a God of love and grace rather than a God of hate and condemnation.
Thank God for the UCC. |
|
"the whole irreducible point of the faith,
God thrown in human waste, submerged and shining.
We have grown used to beauty without horror.
We have grown used to useless beauty." |
|
|
danschultz
Posts:8
|
| 04/06/2006 9:13 PM |
|
| Thank you, Baron, and welcome to all. One of the things I've always liked about the UCC has been how we prioritize community over orthodox belief. I'm hoping that these forums will allow us to expand our community horizons into exciting new frontiers. |
|
|
|
|
lisa
Posts:32
|
| 04/18/2006 9:19 AM |
|
Let me add my welcome to all. Such diversity is represented here already! I've been reading the material for this week on "what's the UCC?" and thinking about creeds. I've never liked reciting creeds, partly because one often begins to just say the words without thinking about them, and partly because it often seems like a test of one's beliefs. Some UCC churches use creeds in worship and some do not, but it is not meant to be a test. People with lots of different beliefs can come together in worship, knowing that we are all joining to praise God, in the way that we see and know God. It requires a lot of thinking, though--hard work to keep trying to know God and understand God's word! The important thing, I think, is that God knows us.
Lisa Hart |
|
|
|
|
ikatae
Posts:1
|
| 04/18/2006 11:49 AM |
|
| Pardon my ignorance - but how does the UCC differ from the Unitarian Universalist? Thanks! |
|
|
|
|
jeknight1
Posts:7
|
| 04/20/2006 10:32 AM |
|
Hi, ikatae. The Unitarian Universalists are very religiously pluralistic. They are a very liberal group whose members come from a variety of religious backgrounds: Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Bahai, etc. There is no imposed creed and members are able to incorporate a variety of faith practices and perspectives within their general principle framework. The UCC, on the other hand, is Christian. The UCC believes in respect, love, and justice for all of God's children, regardless of creed, ethnicity, and any other superficial differences that may exist among us. The UCC also does not typically condemn or arrogantly presume to know the spiritual destiny of non-Christians. However, the denomination is nevertheless Christian, and its teachings are built on the Scripture. I believe the UUs have varying viewpoints on the significance of Jesus, but at the very least, Jesus is revered as part of the prophetic tradition. Again on the other hand, the UCC teaches the Gospel of Jesus and Jesus is the one true Head of the Church. Yours was a very good question. I've been reading many posts on this website, and while it's so important that people learn of the extravagent welcome of the UCC (which is absolutely true!), it is equally important to understand that this is a Christian denomination. |
|
|
|
|
WWJD
Posts:40
|
| 05/08/2006 11:09 PM |
|
[QUOTE]danschultz wrote
Thank you, Baron, and welcome to all. One of the things I've always liked about the UCC has been how we prioritize community over orthodox belief. I'm hoping that these forums will allow us to expand our community horizons into exciting new frontiers.[/QUOTE]
That is the difference between Orthopraxy and Orthodoxy. Are people more concerned with what you believe in or what you do? That is why I picked WWJD for my screen name! Empahsis on doing! |
|
|
|
|
WWJD
Posts:40
|
| 05/08/2006 11:11 PM |
|
[QUOTE]jeknight1 wrote
Hi, ikatae. The Unitarian Universalists are very religiously pluralistic. They are a very liberal group whose members come from a variety of religious backgrounds: Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, Bahai, etc. There is no imposed creed and members are able to incorporate a variety of faith practices and perspectives within their general principle framework. The UCC, on the other hand, is Christian. The UCC believes in respect, love, and justice for all of God's children, regardless of creed, ethnicity, and any other superficial differences that may exist among us. The UCC also does not typically condemn or arrogantly presume to know the spiritual destiny of non-Christians. However, the denomination is nevertheless Christian, and its teachings are built on the Scripture. I believe the UUs have varying viewpoints on the significance of Jesus, but at the very least, Jesus is revered as part of the prophetic tradition. Again on the other hand, the UCC teaches the Gospel of Jesus and Jesus is the one true Head of the Church. Yours was a very good question. I've been reading many posts on this website, and while it's so important that people learn of the extravagent welcome of the UCC (which is absolutely true!), it is equally important to understand that this is a Christian denomination.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think you are being entirely fair to the UU. I participated in a congregation on and off for several years. The UU is very diverse, yes, but so is the UCC. There are actually Jewish people and people of mixed faiths who are part of the UCC. The true difference between the two is that their heritage -- they have different histories as how they came about. |
|
|
|
|
baronsabato
Posts:78
|
| 05/09/2006 12:22 AM |
|
Well, the UCC is certainly a diverse group, but I think jeknight1 described both denominations pretty accurately. Unitarian Universalism, while descended from liberal Christian traditions, no longer considers itself a Christian church, although there are some UU members who consider themselves Christian. This is actually estimated at only about 13% of Unitarian Universalists, while Humanists represent 54% of the denomination's member. This is very different from the United Church of Christ, which has declared Jesus to be the head of our church and is definitely a Christian church, even if we do have a minority of people who don't consider thesmelves Christians. I would also say that while we both have different histories, they are also quite intertwined- many of the early Congregationalist churches of New England became Unitarian in the 1800s and have since joined the UUA.
http://www.uua.org/aboutuu/uufaq.html#christian
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism |
|
"the whole irreducible point of the faith,
God thrown in human waste, submerged and shining.
We have grown used to beauty without horror.
We have grown used to useless beauty." |
|
|
jeknight1
Posts:7
|
| 05/15/2006 3:26 PM |
|
WWJD, respectfully, your example of an exception actually helps to illustrate my point: "There are actually Jewish people and people of mixed faiths who are part of the UCC."
I say this because I am ethnically Jewish. I was educated and raised as a Jew. To the extent that I can't change my blood heritage (not that I would choose to), I am still "Jewish." So you are correct that "Jewish" people are members of the UCC. However I am absolutely a Christian, and this is why I am a member of the UCC. If I accepted mainstream Jewish theology, which does not accept Christ, I wouldn't be a member of the UCC. Nor would I expect the UCC to embrace my views as being consistent with that of a Christian church. I would expect the UCC to embrace me as a child of God, however, which is why I chose this denonimation to begin with. Thanks, Baronsabato, for probably better articulating the point I was trying to make. |
|
|
|
|
WWJD
Posts:40
|
| 05/16/2006 10:57 PM |
|
| I'm not talking about ethnic Jews bur rather actual Jewish people who practice Judaism. |
|
|
|
|
Booktender
Posts:14
|
| 05/17/2006 1:50 AM |
|
I find the UU/UCC histories to be very interesting. I grew up in the Congregational UCC tradition. If I remember correctly, and I frequently don't, Congregational churches are descended from the Trinitarian churches that split from the Pilgrims-at about the same time the Unitarians did.
I'm unclear about the Universalist part of the UU. I know some UUs consider themselves a Christian church and some don't.
It's more like we're kissing cousins or something. |
|
|
|
|
RuralUCC
Posts:27
|
| 05/17/2006 8:12 AM |
|
| I am somewhat familiar with the Universalist part of the UU. It is based on the belief that there is a loving God that will ultimately save us all--no matter what, all people are granted salvation. It rejects the idea of a literal hell and it may be safe to say that it rejects the idea of separation from God. Everyone; at least metaphorically, goes to heaven. I welcome someone with a more thorough understanding of this topic to go into more detail and correct me if I made any mistakes. I think some people in the UCC are in line with this theology, but we certainly don't enforce it. A question for all, what do you think about Purgatory, or anything about the afterlife? |
|
|
|
|
jeknight1
Posts:7
|
| 06/06/2006 4:54 PM |
|
"I'm not talking about ethnic Jews bur rather actual Jewish people who practice Judaism."
Clearly one cannot make generalizations about each individual who chooses to be a member of a particular denomination or congregation. If you, WWJD know practicing Jews who are members of the UCC, then you do, and I certainly wouldn't try to argue with you on that. But I still don't think that this point changes the fact that the UCC is a Christian denomination, albeit a welcoming one, and not a theological catch-all. A practicing Jew who espouses the belief that Jesus is Messiah is not practicing mainstream Judaism, but Messianic Judaism, which is a different thing altogether. A Messianic Jew (such as a member of "Jews for Jesus") is a Christian. I'm not going to presume that there aren't any mainstream Jews who belong to the UCC, as perhaps there are. But if these folks do not accept Jesus, then their views do not characterize the UCC. The fact that the UCC will embrace them nevertheless, however, does characterize the UCC. |
|
|
|
|
WWJD
Posts:40
|
| 06/09/2006 12:54 AM |
|
| But as a UCC I don't belive Jesus was "the Messiah." Certainly not in the way that Fundamentalists and Conservatives view it. The UCC does recognize that Jesus is seen in a variety of different ways from a Rabbi and/or Prophet to *the* Son of God. People who belong to the UCC also view Jesus on this continum. My beliefs (and many others in the UCC) about Jesus are similar if not the same as many Reform and Conservative and probably even Orthodox Jews. |
|
|
|
|
joemg7777
Posts:2
|
| 06/17/2006 10:09 PM |
|
Let me jump in here as having attended a UU church for a year and then having an long period of involvement with the liberal branch of Quakerism.
Some of the difficulties is how does one define "Christian", which I don't necessarily want to get into. However, from all the literature that I have seen about the UCC, it identifies itself as "Christian". There may be a lot of "wiggle room" for folks to question some of the traditional/orthodox ideas about who Jesus is/was, but it nonetheless identifies itself as such.
The UUA no longer identifies itself as "Christian" although it ackonwledges its "Judeo-Christian" roots. Many of those who identify as Christian within the UUA would probably not be defined as such by more traditional/orthodox views of Christ (e.g. many UUA Christians are humanists or non-theist or unitarian). Nonetheless, they consider themselves and identify as Christian although they are indeed a small minority of the population of the UUA.
The liberal branch of Quakerism, while having many people identify as "Christian" (in however manner the individual defines it for him/herself) is, institutionally no longer explicitly self-identifed as Christian. In fact, many of the regional bodies are eliminating any overt language that identifies them as such because they now have so many non-Christians (that is, people who explicitly reject or do not identify with the label of "Christian" in any way or fashion).
My point is that, at least from the UCC pulpits I have sat in front of, the literature and email I have gotten, and all of the members I have personally spoken to, the UCC is a Christian-identifed organization. It may include many on the left-wing of the church, including people who, at one time, would have been considered unitarian in their theology, but they nonetheless identify as Christians with Jesus being "the Head of the church" as mentioned before.
I appreciate this thread since I am thinking of talking with the pastor of the local church I have attended about the issue of whether the UCC is "Christian" (and I mean that in the broadest sense of the word, including those who would be considered "heterodox" in their theology regarding Jesus). I left the liberal branch of Quakerism because it has changed some in the past 20 years, becoming more "post-Christian" at the organizational level. |
|
|
|
|
subear
Posts:789
|
| 08/29/2006 12:33 PM |
|
| This is interesting. . . .
How does the UCC define Christ? Does "Christ" refer to Jesus and only Jesus? Or does UCC see "Christ" as it was origionally, as describing a state of consciousness? ............
Most Americans probably think that "Christ" was Jesus' last name. It's not. Just as "Buddha" is a state or level of consciousness signifying "awakened" of "enlightened," "Christ" is the state or level of consciousness signifying the realization of God within, God as one's inner identity. There are many Buddhas. There are many Christs. .............
I'm going to stop there. . .
Blessings,
Subear
-----PS ---- how do you get paragraphs to stay paragraphs? I leave spaces between them when I type, but when it goes to the forum they are gone.
|
|
"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
|
|
Posts:0
|
| 08/29/2006 5:07 PM |
|
Hi Bear
I think in the UCC, the "Christ" means "anointed one" and is a Greek translation of the hebrew ""Messiah" there are many "anointed one"s in scripture -- most notably the kings of Israel and Judah. But the Christ we refer to is Jesus the Christ -- the anointed one of God. We use the term to refer to Jesus as the anointed one.
I know that the term can be used in other contexts and be just as accurate. In this case, however, we're referring specifically to Jesus -- the Christ.
[QUOTE]subear wrote
This is interesting. . . . How does the UCC define Christ? Does "Christ" refer to Jesus and only Jesus? Or does UCC see "Christ" as it was origionally, as describing a state of consciousness? ............ Most Americans probably think that "Christ" was Jesus' last name. It's not. Just as "Buddha" is a state or level of consciousness signifying "awakened" of "enlightened," "Christ" is the state or level of consciousness signifying the realization of God within, God as one's inner identity. There are many Buddhas. There are many Christs. ............. I'm going to stop there. . . Blessings, Subear -----PS ---- how do you get paragraphs to stay paragraphs? I leave spaces between them when I type, but when it goes to the forum they are gone. [/QUOTE] |
|
|
|
|
baronsabato
Posts:78
|
| 08/30/2006 3:30 AM |
|
Subear, just to let you know, if you'd like to create paragraphs, just type < br > twice WITHOUT the spaces separating the two < from the "br" in order for the paragraph spaces to show up. Or alternatively, you can switch to the basic text box (just lick on the bubble above) instead of using the rich text editor, and then paragraph spaces will show up.
By the way, I certainly found your posts very interesting, although I do use the word "Christ" as meaning "Jesus", who I believe to be the Messiah, the anointed one of God. Even so, I recognize that for Jews, the word "Messiah" has far different connotations, and is not the same meaning at all. I still use "Christ" because it defines exactly who I feel Jesus to be. |
|
"the whole irreducible point of the faith,
God thrown in human waste, submerged and shining.
We have grown used to beauty without horror.
We have grown used to useless beauty." |
|
|
subear
Posts:789
|
| 09/04/2006 11:55 AM |
|
Thanks, Dog.
That's a good answer.
Bear |
|
"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
|
|
Posts:0
|
| 09/05/2006 11:50 AM |
|
I guess I should get a treat then? :)
[QUOTE]subear wrote
Thanks, Dog.
That's a good answer.
Bear[/QUOTE] |
|
|
|
|
iucc
Posts:318
|
| 09/09/2006 2:32 PM |
|
| baransabato, thanks for the tip. Another (and perhaps easier) way to create paragraphs is to switch from the "Basic Text Box" to the "Rich Text Editor" mode (the choice is at the top of the box where you're composing the message, then simply hit the "Enter" key once to create a space before the next paragraph. |
|
Andy Lang
Minister for Web Community and Communication
Local Church Ministries
United Church of Christ |
|
|
|