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Subject: The commercials: Do you really think we do that?

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Joe Mainusch
New User

Posts:6

06/19/2008 11:15 AM
Having seen the now famous UCC TV commercials, I can't help being a little agitated about them. While they do make a good point about the need to be accepting of people, I can't help feeling a little insulted. The insinuation is that the UCC doesn't do those things, but all those other Christian denominations do. Personally, I come from the largest Christian denomination in the world, so I certainly feel as though they must be aimed, at least partially, at us. Do you, the members of the United Church of Christ really believe we refuse to let "those people" in? Or throw "those people" out? If not us, then which denominations are these aimed at?

sjt8184

Posts:14

06/23/2008 2:55 AM
Joe, Great question, and one that I'm sure will receive many different answers from many different types of people. The fact is that many UCC members come from other Denominations. They have felt shut out of these churches for a variety of reasons. I don't believe the ads are meant to be pointed at any Church in particular, but the Mainstream idea of the Church. Most Americans, particulary younger Americans, feel the Church in general casts people out. That the Church focuses on what makes us different, not what makes us the same. That's the purpose of these commercials, to tell those who have questions, that we are a welcoming denomination. I don't believe that all Christian denominations preach Hate, in fact, I know better than that. But the Mainstream Preception, again especially amongst Millenials and younger Gen Xers, is that of an exclusive church, not an Inclusive one. We are just offering people a chance to see us compared to that model. I hope that helps.

Joe Mainusch
New User

Posts:6

06/23/2008 8:08 AM
Which mainstream churches shut people out because they're handicapped? Different color? Poor? I've never seen this behavior, although I've been to several other mainstream denominations. Which mainstream denominations focus on what makes us different? I've never observed this to be the case. I sometimes hear non-christians say that, but I've never actually seen any mainstream christian churches doing that. Now I have seen mainstream churches teach that certain behaviors are sinful, and consistently speak out against these behaviors. However, even with people who engage in these behaviors, I've seen the churches consistently call them in with open arms (even while maintaining that they really shouldn't oughta be doing that). If you feel "shut out" because you like to do X, and that church preaches against X, you have to realize it's not YOU that's being "shut out," it's X. Is it right to simply shop around until you find a church that doesn't speak out against your particular pet behavior?

sjt8184

Posts:14

06/23/2008 2:08 PM
For many years the Southern Baptist Convention had openly racist Churches. The Catholic Church believes it is the "One True Church" which directly says to outsiders that if you don't believe exactly as they do, then you are going to hell. MegaChurches across America preach hatred. Further, I tried to portray this in my first post, it's not that denominations do these things, it's that it's preceived that they do. It's the people who attend these churches who sneer at someone who doesn't dress right, or look right. Most Church leaders want a "big tent" church, but for some, their Church community distances itself from people of other walks of life. Further, it seems like you just want to argue. If that's the case, I truly hope you find a better way to spend your time.

Joe Mainusch
New User

Posts:6

06/24/2008 7:58 AM
I think you've hit the nail right on the head with that. "...it's not that denominations do these things, it's that it's preceived that they do." Don't these commercials go a long way toward reinforcing this mistaken perception? How do you heal division by mocking and caricaturing a false notion of what other groups do? It doesn't make sense. I have a viewpoint I wanted to discuss, and this seemed to be the appropriate forum for it. I'm not being argumentative. Since the UCC is an open and affirming church, I am confident that my point of view, even if different than your own, is welcome here. Please correct me if I'm mistaken in this.

JonAtFaithUCC
New User

Posts:4

06/25/2008 1:35 PM
If it's not appropriate here, then you can discuss it over at uccforums.com. What's your viewpoint, Joe?

sjt8184

Posts:14

06/27/2008 5:13 PM
Joe, The commercials are made just like any other commercial is made: To Promote Our Product.(our Churches). We can not speak for your Church, or any other Church for that matter. And we know their are divisions in all denominations on the issue of acceptance, and what is approriate and what is not. This isn't an Attack on other Churches...it's showing that OUR CHURCH is not like that. We can't speak for other Churches. Perhaps your Church is more guilty of not being accepting than you wish to let on, if it really struck a nerve. I'm sure many people of many Churches have seen these Commercials and said "I hate Churches like that, I'm glad I don't go to one". Your reaction was "How dare they say we aren't welcoming". The Victim's mentality is not very flattering.

Joe Mainusch
New User

Posts:6

06/30/2008 9:04 AM
Well there are two forces at play here. There is the doctrine of the church itself, and then there is the behavior of individual members of that church. As to the central church doctrine regarding acceptance, I know that ours is to be accepting of all people (though not all behaviors). However, there are some individuals who, in contradiction to the doctrine of my church, behave in an unaccepting manner. These individuals need to be better educated about the doctrine of their own church. I've only recently converted to the Catholic Church, and have been a member of several other congregations, and have seen the same pattern at each. None of the Christian churches I've been to have had doctrines which taught that certain people are to be excluded. However, some members have behaved badly in that regard. This includes the many years I spent in a UCC church. While the central church doctrine (such as it is) teaches that all people should be accepted, I've seen unaccepting behavior from UCC members as well. There certainly are UCC churches in wealthy areas who would make someone dressed in rags feel out of place. If I went to church on Sunday wearing a "Newt Gingrich for President" pin, I'm sure I would overhear lots of murmuring and "how dare he" comments. Please don't deny it. All congregations have people in them who are in need of additudinal readjustment. That's why churches exist. To teach the gospel. If we weren't broken, we wouldn't need to be healed. However, the commercials in question certainly give the impression that it is the central church doctrine of these unnamed other denominations that rejects "those people." Official looking bouncers at the doors. Ejector seats built in to the pews. This is not simply people in the next pew looking down their noses at you, making you feel "unwelcomed."

ProudDog

Posts:509

07/02/2008 6:05 PM
Hi Joe I remember talking with lots of people about the commercials when they first debuted. Some loved them -- others were agitated as you have been. The commercials are obvious caricatures intended to get folks to respond. Specifically they're targeted to people who have felt ostracized in some way by the church. I know we reached many who have those feelings -- when the commercials were running the web hits on the ucc.org sites skyrocketed. We do have a commercial that is much more feelgood and not at all controversial. It's the "all the people" one. Folks from churches all over loved that commercial -- but it didn't really reach folks who feel outside the church. And through all of that -- there's the reality that we continue to fall short in the welcoming department - but we're still trying!

-Kirk Moore

iucc

Posts:265

07/09/2008 2:11 PM
Joe, thanks for your question. For your information, the commercials (including the "injector seat") were previewed by our colleagues in other churches--including communication staff from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. They enjoyed the sense of humor and none of them felt that their church was being targeted. And that included our Catholic friends, with whom the UCC works locally and nationally on many projects and causes. It is true, of course, that many people do not experience a welcome in various churches, particularly on the basis of sexual identity but also because of disability, race, or ethnic origin. You couldn't say that about all congregations of any particular denomination, of course: one shouldn't generalize, of course. The commercial is simply making a point, which has to be made dramatically, or in 30 seconds it would have no impact, that the United Church of Christ wants to be a community where all people will feel welcome. In any case, if the leadership of other churches with which we have very strong ecumenical ties (including the Catholic Church) felt we were attacking them, you can bet we would have heard from them. In fact, one of the reactions I valued most when the "ejector" ad ran in 2006 was from a very devout Roman Catholic who said it simply inspired her to be more assertive in her own parish when welcoming strangers. And she certainly didn't feel that we were insulting her tradition. I did respond to one email, though, from a Roman Catholic woman who was certain that our choice of a neo-gothic church was intended to slam her tradition. And she was certain that the black suit jacket worn by the person pushing the ejector button was an attack on Catholic priests. I had to gently tell her that there were just as many Protestant and Anglican churches in North America that were built in the same style, and that this particular ad was filmed in a congregation of our partner denomination in Canada--the United Church of Canada. And the suit worn by the button-pusher was dark brown, not black. Obviously, no church that creates a safe and respectful environment for people with different identities and backgrounds needs to feel threatened, and nobody is leaving any church because we've run a few ads on TV. And at least as far as race and ethnicity are concerned, the Roman Catholic church is one of the most diverse in the U.S.

Andy Lang Minister for Web Community and Communication Local Church Ministries United Church of Christ

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