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richrthr
Posts:102
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| 07/31/2007 6:46 AM |
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| Many people in America are overextended, financially - meaning they live beyond their means, have taken out lines of costly credit, purchased things that they did not need but probably thought they did, or had medical problems that stretched their finances, or family-care issues that dwindle their money down.
We like people who pay their debts. No one I know ever "forgives their debtors" as much as Jesus would like us to, and no one has ever forgiven me a debt. Such is the nature of consumer economy.
"Traditional" tithing calls for 10%, it seems. Feel free to correct me, I won't be insulted. But regardless of the appropriate percent, is it a percentage of income, or a percentage of God's gifts to us?
Many people sit in their "pew" and drop a check in the basket, and go home and forget about church for a week. They think this is all they have to do.
Other people give of their other gifts. Examples: cleaning the church, hosting or helping out at hospitality events, contributing to the service itself by reading, singing, praying, enhancing the service in some way, cutting grass, gardening, etc.
Still others get involved in the greater community - fundraising, protests, activism, mercy missions, etc.
Some people give all three levels of service.
I personally believe it is a cop-out for someone to put a check in the collection plate and say "that's all I can do." Even if a person is overextended finacially, a tithe can take the form of other types of giving, not related to money.
How do you feel? Is money tithe enough? |
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Richard Kiraly
Garden of Grace UCC
http://www.gogucc.com |
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Don NIederfrank
Posts:41
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| 07/31/2007 8:15 AM |
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| I need to let go of this so that I do not hold tightly to that. IOW, I need to give money away so that I do not love it so that I might love my neighbor and God. The amount varies. I'm not successful at this. |
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Dios habla todavia |
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JonAtFaithUCC
Posts:4
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| 07/31/2007 10:18 AM |
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I responded about this on the other board, but will share my response here as well:
My church is small enough that most everyone is actively involved in the ongoing life of the church in some way or another beyond (leading worship, lay reader, ushering, providing snacks, janitorial, outreach, etc.). It's part of our shared ministry covenant. We would have folded long ago if we depended solely on the monetary gifts of our friends and members.
We still need money to help pay for our part-time minister and office worker and to pay the electricity and building maintenance costs and OCWM contributions and water and internet and phone, etc., etc.
Interesting story. A year or so ago, I looked up the salaries of all church members who are employed by the government (the salaries are posted annually). We live in a university town, so many of us are on that list (myself included). Just looking at that list of folks (about one-third of the active membership) and figuring a 10% tithe and not assuming that they have other financial obligations, I figured out that our church budget would more than double just from that group of folks tithing. We'd still be ahead if each of those folks gave 5% of their gross income. That's not taking into account the incomes of non-governmental church members (several of who live on Social Security or SSI and I don't expect that they should be giving a significant chunk of their change). FWIW... |
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subear
Posts:732
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| 07/31/2007 11:55 AM |
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I tithe money and service, joyfully (and gratefully).
I tithe money because I know what it costs to keep the church operations solvent. Pledging a set monthly amount is good, because I can write a check at the first of the month and know that my share of the church income is taken care of, even when I am on vacation. It is part of my budget (as if, I actually wrote out a budget. . . something on my "to do" list) - (as if I had a "to do" list).
And I give service because that serves my soul.
I also believe in the spiritual principle, illustrated in this saying, "as you sow, so shall you reap." Okay, most of us are not farmers anymore; when I was a child, I thought it said "sew" and "rip," that made sense - - - but didn't have the same meaning. This just popped into mind (it may not be Biblical) "to those who give, much is given." (or maybe that was, "to those who have, much is given"?) Both are true.
But. . . here's a thought, do we subtract our debts from our "income" before we figure out how much to tithe? I mean, is it okay to do that?
Are our debts beyond our means? Are we able to pay off the credit-card bills in full each month? Are we buying stuff that isn't necessary? We (church) don't want to guilt or trick people into giving beyond their means, or spending beyond their means. I think, like Don alluded, it's about getting our priorities straight. If we want to know what we really value in our lives, look at where we are spending our money. Money is just a symbolic holding place for the exchange of energy. Where do you want to give your energy? What do you value?
And, from where do you want to be receiving energy?
In our church, as in most, we have a season of financial education, prosperity classes and workshops before the annual pledge drive. It is a part of our spiritual wholeness to have a handle on our finances. For many of us, that's the part of our lives that we are least conscious of.
Oh, and I never judge others by how much or how little they appear to be giving. It's not my business.
That's the news from my part of the world.
sb |
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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Darren
Posts:11
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| 07/31/2007 3:27 PM |
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| I'm not equally yoked I guess you could say. My partner of 11 plus year and I disagree on the importance of giving. Of course we would disagree as he does not attend church nor sees a need. Just recently our pastor challenged each of the, how should I put this, founding members of the congregation??? He is begining to tithe, starting with a certain percentage of his limited income and working up to 10%. I have also taken up this challenge and prayed to God to open the door so that this issue doesn't cause problems with my spouse. Well, just this last Sunday, while I asked if it was okay to write a check for two weeks worth of offering. He said do what you want. I'm going to continue to encourage him and little by little God will help me reach the goal of me being able to tithe from my paycheck and who know maybe my spouse will join and start tithing from his also. |
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richrthr
Posts:102
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| 07/31/2007 6:03 PM |
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| I'm interested in ways to "educate" our congregation on financial wellness. Please tell me what you are doing? |
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Richard Kiraly
Garden of Grace UCC
http://www.gogucc.com |
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Darren
Posts:11
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| 08/02/2007 1:48 PM |
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| Richard, I'll see if I can get the letter my pastor gave out and with his permission I'll pass it along to you for an example. We are a small congregation in the midst of renewal, also in a poor neighborhood, so the letter did not go to everyone as there are those who are only able to give their presence, those who give of their time, those who give of their talents, those who give of their prayers each of these is greatly valued in the congregation I attend but, it also takes cash to pay the bills and buy the other things for ministry so this letter went out to those who are able to help in this way. Our pastor is leading by example. |
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pstrmrk
Posts:16
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| 08/02/2007 4:06 PM |
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In the small rural congregation I pastored, the trustees would plan the annual budget and then divide that amount by the number of members we had. It came out to between 200-300 dollars a year. Some would give more and some less based on their individual means. But we always had a surplus and were 5 for 5 on the national level while I was there. I'm sure they had been doing it that way since the beginning of time. I was also bi-vocational and contracted 3/4 time which probably helped. Never could figure out what 3/4 of a pastor was. lol.
I would be interested in what kind of stewardship education curriculum you use at your church, subear.
Blessings,
Mark |
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"and they devoted themselves to...prayer" - The Book of Acts
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richrthr
Posts:102
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| 08/02/2007 6:16 PM |
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| thanks, Darren - it would be nice of you to do so! Our church is a 5 for 5 church, though... but we can always do better! |
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Richard Kiraly
Garden of Grace UCC
http://www.gogucc.com |
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Darren
Posts:11
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| 08/03/2007 10:08 AM |
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| We are a 5 for 5 church also. |
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richrthr
Posts:102
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| 08/04/2007 6:06 AM |
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Interesting background - in my Roman Catholic childhood and early 20's, "tithing" almost never came up. I can't remember it ever being discussed - in sermons, in lessons, in Catechism - none of the above. The first time I ever became acquainted with the fact that there were guidelines for putting money in that basket was about 7 years ago when I met my husband - I remember I was absolutely agape at the fact that he put a whole $20 bill in the basket. I can't remember my parents or anyone else putting any more than a couple of dollars in that basket.
Of course, the Roman Catholic church apparently has deep pockets. I can't remember our church ever having a money crisis.
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Richard Kiraly
Garden of Grace UCC
http://www.gogucc.com |
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subear
Posts:732
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| 08/05/2007 8:14 PM |
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| just one of the differences between congregationalism (with a small "c") and episcopalism (with a small "c"). |
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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subear
Posts:732
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| 08/05/2007 8:14 PM |
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| just one of the differences between congregationalism (with a small "c") and episcopalism (with a small "e"). |
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"We are not human beings having a spiritual experience. We are spiritual beings having a human experience." Pierre Teilhard de Chardin |
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jimsavage
Posts:2
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| 04/27/2008 10:08 PM |
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| UCC members continue to contribute at the lowest rates of American churches. Perhaps it is because our members do not believe that their churches are really doing the work of the Lord. As to tithing, it really not practiced except in slightly over one hundred years. Our churches are more than familiar with the concept of "pew rentals" as being the primary basis for church support during most of its history. Personally I try to tithe across the spectrum in Christian goals- some to local congregations that do the work of the Lord (and there are many that do nothing but maintain their buildings and church hierarchy which I do not support). I like to support Christian organizations that carry our specific goals where I can contribute my spiritual gifts but I think that where most of financial support is needed is directly from the giver to those in need and you provide your emotional support. Yes contributing to the support of the Chrisitan mission involves us with direct hands on ministry. We are all called to be ministers in our everyday life. God does not measure your admission to heaven by how much you give but how you accept the Christian basics and live your life. For those who can financially support our church buildings, encourage them if they do nothing else but you must remember that during Jesus's time, the church was most often in small interactive groups in people's homes. We spend too much money on maintaining physical structures and salaries rather than fulfilling salvation goals and the Great Commandment and Great Commission. |
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